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Show Summary

Are you planning to take the LSAT or the GRE before you apply to law school? Are you dreading it? Well, there’s a new option that includes a course and a test, and is accepted by 25% of all law schools. The JD-Next is an eight-week online course that simulates a real law school contracts class and trains students on the skills necessary to be successful in law school and as practicing attorneys. In this episode, Linda Abraham sits down with David Klieger, Program Director for JD-Next at Aspen Publishing to discuss the course that was developed to provide individuals with a preview of what law school is like before making the commitment, as well as to better prepare them for success in law school and possibly replace the LSAT and GRE.

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Show Notes

Welcome to the 562nd episode of Admissions Straight Talk. Thanks for joining me today. Are you preparing to apply to your dream law schools? Are you competitive at your target programs? Accepted’s law school admissions quiz can give you a quick reality check. Just go to accepted.com/law-quiz, take the quiz, and you’ll not only get an assessment of your chances, but tips on how to improve your qualifications. Plus, it’s all free. 

Let’s move on to our interview and fantastic guest. Our guest today is David Klieger, Program Director for JD-Next at Aspen Publishing. His work in admissions includes successfully leading efforts to make the JRE widely recognized for use by law schools. David practiced law after receiving his JD from the University of Pennsylvania with Carey Law School. He then earned his PhD in Industrial Organizational Psychology, specializing in psychometrics and statistics from the University of Minnesota. David has worked in the assessment and training field for more than 20 years. His published work has appeared in leading publications, such as Harvard Business Review, The International Journal of Testing, and the Journal of Applied Psychology. He’s given interviews to The Wall Street Journal and NPR about his work to innovate law school admissions. Of course, he’s just continuing to move up the ladder by joining us on Admissions Straight Talk.

David, welcome to Admissions Straight Talk. I’m delighted to speak with you today, and again, congratulations on your new position with JD-Next. [2:09 ]

Thank you very much, Linda. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Let’s start with a really basic question. What is JD-Next? [2:19 ]

JD-Next is an innovative eight-week online asynchronous course which essentially simulates a real law school contracts class. In it, one is exposed to what a real law school class would be like. One is trained on the skills that are really important to being a successful law student, as well as a successful practicing attorney. At the end of the course, there is a final exam.

Why was it developed? Why have this pre-law school course, if you’re ultimately going to go to law school? [3:01 ]

Well, the back story is multiple. First, there was a desire to provide a way of giving individuals a preview of what law school is going to be like before they make the actual commitment, which can be obviously quite expensive and time-consuming. Law school can be quite a stressful experience at times.

In addition, it was an opportunity to get people better prepared for success in law school. There actually is research that shows that, by participating in JD-Next, people will perform better in law school. It’s very important to perform well academically in law school because it’s really determinative of employment opportunities.

The other really important aspect of JD-Next is that there’s research that does show that the score gaps that you can see, in terms of different demographic groups, for other kinds of assessment, really you don’t see nearly to the same extent for JD-Next. It does actually provide equity and fairness in a way that’s rather innovative and unique.

When you talk about people taking the course and actually doing better in law school, is that a little bit better or a lot better? Do you have that kind of data? [4:26 ]

It’s .2 of a grade point, which in law school, can make an actual significant difference in how prepared one is and how one looks to employers.

Are you talking about a lack of disparity among different ethnic groups of different socioeconomic groups in terms of the test and scores? [4:52 ]

The research particularly looked at race and ethnicity and looked at the traditional majority group, vis-a-vis traditionally underrepresented groups. It was shown that, if there’s any difference in the average score across these groups, it’s smaller than what you otherwise tend to see in the admissions process.

It’s smaller than in the LSAT or the GRE? [5:24 ]

It is smaller, based on the research.

Are there other benefits to JD-Next, as compared to the LSAT or GRE? Both to law schools and to law school applicants. There are other things that it does that the other two tests don’t do. [5:30 ]

It’s a different type of product. It’s actually a preparation course for law school. It provides the preview benefit as well as the preparation benefit, which is really a different kind of product. There is a final exam at the end of the course, which can be used for making admissions decisions. But it is a different and more comprehensive kind of product.

Even if somebody is taking the LSAT or is required to take the LSAT, they may benefit from JD-Next because of its preparatory qualities, is that correct? [6:19 ]

Correct.

From the law school admissions perspective, law schools have relied on the LSAT, and, more recently, on the GRE because of their predictive qualities. Can you talk about the predictability of the JD-Next, from an admissions perspective? [6:31 ]

We have conducted that research, and it clearly shows that the final exam for JD-Next is just as predictive of success academically in law school.

Do schools get the actual score on JD-Next, or do they just get pass, fail, or something like that? [7:10 ]

There is a specific score that’s provided.

Can you go into a little bit more about what is actually taught in the course? Is it taught legal reasoning, legal writing, analyzing cases, what? [7:23 ]

There is a context here for what’s being taught. It’s a contracts law class. But you could argue that it could be a tortes class, it could be a civil procedure class. What JD-Next was originally intended to do, and it still does, is to teach those really important underlying skills that are important for success in law school, regardless of what the content area is.

It’s legal reasoning. The ability to provide an answer is what a lawyer would do. The ability to provide the breakdown of the case, to analyze a case, to remember the pertinent facts, to remember the holding of the case, the main conclusion of the case. To do what law students are really being trained to do. That makes